‘Teach fewer things in greater depth,’ says OECD education adviser on Greek school system

German mathematician, statistician and researcher in the field of education Andreas Schleicher, who is currently the director for education and skills, and special adviser on education policy to the secretary-general at the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), was the keynote speaker at the “21st Century Skills and Well-being in School” conference organized by Anatolia College’s Kassandra Center for Educational Excellence. The conference took place on October 22 at Anatolia College in Thessaloniki.

Kathimerini caught up with him to talk about education today, PISA, the OECD’s Program for International Student Assessment, and what schools need to focus on to instill pupils with the skills that will help them in life.

“The Greek students are pretty good at memorizing subjects. But they have difficulty extrapolating from what they know to use and apply that knowledge in everyday situations. One of the challenges I see for Greek teachers is to teach fewer things in greater depth. The education system in Greece has evolved, but slowly. It remains a vertically oriented system. Most of the information flows vertically, not laterally, and collaboratively among educators, schools, local municipalities and society. To develop education and knowledge, we must create that social fabric. So, it is crucial to take the four steps: Establish the curriculum; look at the learning environment; ask what people can enable that, and then look at the work organization that can make the real change happen. This is the most challenging part of education. Education is a very conservative institution. Many people want to keep it as it is. We see how parents are often anxious when their children learn things they don’t understand.”

Which skills do you consider most vital in the 21st century?

For me, there are three classes of skills that are particularly important. The first is our capacity to imagine, to create, to build things that offer intrinsic positive worth. The kind of things artificial intelligence cannot do, that is really human ability. The second is our capacity to manage tensions and dilemmas. The world is no longer black and white. We have to navigate ambiguity, manage complexity, distinguish fact from opinion, and to be resilient. The third is really about our capacity to mobilize our cognitive, social and emotional resources; to do things, that sense of agency.

How can PISA shape national education policies?

PISA is one of those tools. We see that Greece is spending much of its national income on education. First, however, we must examine how the system ensures that the teachers can engage in collaborative professional development, how large the school classes are and the number of students, how you provide the quality of teaching, and how you align recourses to make the most difference. These are tough questions with no easy answers.

Where do you attribute Greece’s ranking in average positions in the PISA evaluation?

The first thing is what you teach. One thing that often strikes me is that Greek students are pretty good at reproducing fixed subjects in a content, memorizing subjects, and answering tests and exams. But Greek students have difficulty extrapolating from what they know to use and apply that knowledge in everyday situations. This is what the PISA values: to think creatively, to apply your knowledge, to think out of the box, think across the boundaries of subject disciplines. In Greece, teaching focuses on content delivery. I would say that one of the challenges I see for Greek teachers is to teach fewer things in greater depth. Instead of focusing so much on content, they should help students understand the foundation of the disciplines, ideas and concepts rather than the knowledge. The second is how you teach. Greece has a very atomistic education system. Teachers often work in isolation. Same for schools. Someone could say that this is a matter of geography. But in other countries, schools are better connected and more collaborative even with a dispersed school system. We see in Greece that the teachers are sent far away from the cities and work their way backward. There is always transition and movement in the system. This is not good for the students, especially in schools that face difficulties. These are the schools that need the most qualified and experienced teachers. Vietnam and China have been able to move so fast because they have engaged the most experienced teachers in the toughest schools and the most disadvantaged students. This is how they have leveraged the recourses. If you live in a wealthy neighborhood, it is most likely to have a great school and a good teacher. But if you come from a disadvantaged community, you have only one chance to meet a great teacher and be in a good school. If you miss that, it won’t be easy in your life. Greece has much to learn from countries like Portugal, which has tackled the problem head-on.

‘The world is no longer black and white. We have to navigate ambiguity, manage complexity, distinguish fact from opinion, and to be resilient’

Do you plan to update or change the PISA evaluation in the future?

The following PISA assessment puts creative thinking at the center and social and emotional skills. Problem-solving skills are essential, but the question is if you can solve problems with people who are different and think differently. The assessment is a significant mirror, and we must get it right. One of the biggest mistakes education made in history is to divorce learning from assessment. We have learned from PISA to integrate learning and assessment better to ensure that students get a more dynamic insight into their strengths and weaknesses and that teachers understand that different students learn differently.

What should be the role of parents in the educational process?

We have seen the trend of commodifying education: Students are becoming consumers of learning content, teachers are becoming service providers, and parents are becoming clients of education. This could be more helpful because learning was always a social and relational process. It is not a transaction but a relationship. About the parents, they should do a simple thing: Ask their children every day, “How was school today?” In this way, they show that what the child does at school matters to them, that they respect the role of the teachers and that the school matters.

Parents can do a lot to help teachers succeed. Teachers can only be successful if they have the parents’ support. Parents should support teachers’ authority rather than undermine it. Support the knowledge. Teachers know a tiny slice of the world, and parents can help them expand the picture. We do that very well in the early years and kindergarten. The connection works very well, but in school, parents usually don’t enter the school gate, and as a teacher only talks to parents when there is a problem, the parents become very defensive. We don’t spend time and energy to make parents partners. We need that to succeed.

Has PISA measured the effects of the pandemic on education? What are the findings?

The pandemic has amplified any form of inequality that you can imagine. But, on the other hand, for some students who could learn on their own if they had access to digital resources, maybe the pandemic was liberating and exciting.

But for most students, the pandemic was devastating. Mainly because the school is a social space, we forget that. It is not only the place where you learn but where you meet your friends and develop some identity of yourself. School is the first place where you meet the diversity of society; we encounter people who think differently from us and come from different families. Suddenly that space wasn’t there, and for disadvantaged children, that was highly negative. But we have seen a lot of technological and social innovation. After the pandemic, we saw many young people who went to their teachers and said: “Well, during the pandemic, I discovered a lot of interesting learning resources. I learned to learn, set goals, and developed a discipline to learn by myself.” Many teachers understood that more is needed to be a good instructor. They said, “During the pandemic, I understood who my students were, cared for them, and became a good coach, mentor and facilitator.”

Can we organize schools differently where teachers have a more holistic set of responsibilities, putting the students at the center? So many teachers felt lost and alone during the pandemic. But we managed, and now we want to retain some space to do things differently. The worst idea is that after the pandemic to say that things were better then.

Furthermore, many students appreciated their teacher again. Social relationships came to the center. Parents had a better understanding of what teachers do and the hard work the teachers do every day. And often, teachers communicated with parents more substantially. During the pandemic, parents became part of the equation.

Do you miss teaching?

Yes. Initially, I studied science. However, my life changed when I worked in a school for disadvantaged children. That changed my course. This was one of the most meaningful experiences of my life.