PASOK may provide ‘window’ for a SYRIZA return to power, PM tells Kathimerini

Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis appears to lay speculation of a possible post-election partnership with socialist PASOK to rest in this interview with Kathimerini, just a week before Greeks head to the polls.

The New Democracy president accuses his PASOK counterpart, Nikos Androulakis, of having a “personal obsession” against him and of cozying up to the main opposition SYRIZA party.

He also insists that the only way forward for the country is an outright win for the incumbent center-right party and dismisses SYRIZA leader Alexis Tsipras’ thoughts on possible coalitions in the event of an inconclusive election on May 21 as a “hodgepodge.”

The general election is a week away and while you have said that you want to win with an outright majority in the expected second round, you have not set the bar for May 21. What percentage of the vote would New Democracy have to secure for you to say that you’ve reached your target?

For starters, let me say that I don’t talk about first and second rounds. The elections are on May 21 and we’re aiming for the best possible result. That result will determine what happens from there on. I am not setting the bar on a number. The aim is an indisputable lead for New Democracy, well ahead of the party in second place, so there is no doubt over who needs to be prime minister and in government for the next four years. After all, anyone who watched [last week’s televised] debate knows that there is no reliable alternative to a single-party New Democracy government. All the party leaders were there, including the purported partners of the so-called “progressive government” Mr Tsipras is talking about. Was anyone able to come to any conclusions about what he’s proposing? I think the answer is clear. Instead of stability and progress, we’d end up with a hodgepodge, with constant bartering and negotiations between the different parties that would lead to instability and paralysis.

You have said that the goal is to form a stable government in the second round, which will be conducted with an enhanced majority under the electoral law you introduced. Does this mean that you won’t explore a coalition with PASOK on May 22? Why go to a second round if a parliamentary majority can be achieved in the first?

In contrast to other moments in PASOK’s history, Mr Androulakis is, unfortunately, looking to the past, and that’s where he finds convergence with Mr Tsipras. Mr Androulakis’ PASOK is evidently close to SYRIZA. PASOK voters need to know this. If the numbers add up, they may see Mr Tsipras making a comeback “through the window” thanks to their vote. Mr Androulakis’ positions have brought the party closer to Mr Tsipras: from his opposition to civil servant evaluations to prevarication over private universities and the vote against the EFKA [the main social security fund] reform for speeding up pensions. Crucial reforms would have been held up with Mr Androulakis’ PASOK instead of accelerated, as it seems to be going back into statist mode. This is evident in his daily political practices. He spends all day accusing the government and myself, when positions that have cost PASOK’s supporters dearly are being heard all around us: new currencies, the nationalization of banks and organizations and new taxes. And don’t get me started on the axing of judges that [SYRIZA’s Pavlos] Polakis has been talking about. There is, therefore, little to talk about with Mr Androulakis.

‘Circumstances demand stable governments that can make decisions fast, without constant bartering between the parties and dead-end negotiations that lead to paralysis’

You have accused Androulakis of having a personal grievance against you. Is his suspicion misplaced when you have admitted that his surveillance by the National Intelligence Service was wrong? Have you tried to explain the mistake to him personally?

The fact that he has a personal problem with me has been apparent from the start. He even avoided meeting with me months before the matter of the wiretaps came up. I don’t know why, but he doesn’t want me to be prime minister. He has said that he could work with ND, but not with me. Doesn’t this point to a personal obsession? Imagine if I said I could work with PASOK but only if Mr Androulakis is not its chief. It is wrong, though, to allow one’s personal agenda to lead an entire party down the wrong path – and one that is the opposite of what party supporters want.

If the PASOK chief stops opposing you as prime minister after the election, will you respond?

Are you saying that someone who does a complete about-face in 24 hours can be regarded as reliable? As I said, Mr Androulakis’ PASOK is, unfortunately, aligned with SYRIZA, and that is not going to change in three days. If the numbers add up, he’ll try to work something out with Mr Tsipras. 

You have argued that a single-party government is more efficient. Others say that a coalition government means more accountability. Isn’t that a reasonable assumption? 

These are times of mounting international uncertainty, and we have an increasingly unpredictable neighbor to our east. The circumstances demand stable governments that can make decisions fast, without constant bartering between the parties and dead-end negotiations that lead to paralysis. Having more parties in government does not increase accountability. The example of the SYRIZA-Independent Greeks government and everything that transpired, with two ministers convicted of dereliction of duty by a special court, is very recent. Checks and balances arise by bolstering the institutions, respecting the separation of powers and strengthening the safety nets that should exist in a liberal democracy. This is the direction we took when problems emerged during our term and this will continue to be the direction in dealing with any problems that arise in how democracy works.

You have criticized SYRIZA’s educational policies, yet many of the policies you announced have not been implemented. There are no campus police or metal detectors at universities, nor have you made significant headway with the politically costly decision to redraw the university map. Is higher education one of the areas where you balked?

I disagree. Our universities are obviously not at the level that we wanted or they could be, but compare the situation to 2019 and you’ll see that major steps have been taken, which SYRIZA is now threatening to undo. They have become much more extroverted, have embarked on partnerships with major foreign universities and are operating in a new institutional framework that protects freedom of thought instead of violence. The university security teams have been put into action, carrying out 24-hour patrols in the open spaces of three universities that have asked for their support. We have 200 new officers, all university graduates. At the same time, the police can intervene when crimes are being committed.

As for the map of the universities, you saw the protests in various cities because departments were transferred at the request of the universities themselves, while reinstating the minimum pass grades gives youngsters a better sense of direction when they finish school, at a university that will give them a degree that will be recognized and will land them a decent job, with a decent income. We’re not promising admission with no effort whatsoever as Mr Tsipras is so that youngsters attend a school they’ll probably not graduate from. That’s not doing them a service. That’s tricking them. Looking at education as a whole, there is still a lot to do to get where we want, but we shouldn’t overlook what has already been accomplished.

Are you satisfied with your government’s performance in speeding up the system of justice?

Getting a decision still takes too long; that’s true. We’ve made progress, but it’s not enough. This is an issue with social and economic dimensions, a thorn for citizens and an obstacle to investors. Speeding up the dispensation of justice is one of the key goals for the next term and will be incorporated into “Greece 2.0” as a separate program. Important initiatives have been set into motion with a completion date by 2027: a new justice map with 14 new courthouses, digitizing all the records, retraining and assessment of judges and specialized courts. These initiatives will bring the time it takes for a decision to be issued closer to the European average.

You have said that you won’t accept a vote of confidence from MPs that are not elected with ND. If one such MP wants to join New Democracy, will you allow it?

I have said it again and again: New Democracy will not form a single-party government with any MPs that have not been elected with ND.

The parties to the right of ND together account for around 10% of the vote. Is ND reaching out to that part of the electorate?

ND is addressed to all democratic citizens who believe in a liberal democracy, in the country’s European prospects, in a Greece that is making progress in every area. A Greece that is more productive, more socially conscious, greener and more digital, fairer and more powerful. As for those with strong patriotic sensibilities, they need to think about who secured our borders, bolstered our armed forces, maintained a steadfast stance toward provocations and strengthened the country’s international standing. Who, driven by a sense of patriotic duty instead of empty promises, made Greece stronger.

Your government introduced legislation to prevent people convicted of participation in a criminal organization from running for office. Are you concerned by the fact that it requires such a measure to stop such people from entering Parliament? And that they continue to enjoy a certain degree of popularity even after their conviction?

There are many reasons why formations like Golden Dawn and [Ilias] Kasidiaris’ [National] party have supporters. Some do indeed espouse a fascist ideology. Others are driven by irrational theories and extremist rhetoric, and others still believe that by supporting such groups they are punishing the political system. They don’t care even if the courts have ruled them criminal organizations. Our democracy had to react and that is what we did. Just as New Democracy has always done toward Golden Dawn. From the [Antonis] Samaras government to the present, we have been the ones to oppose Golden Dawn on every level and I am pleased that we ratified a law that is very solid – despite what part of the opposition claimed – and that resulted in a section of the Supreme Court barring a criminal organization from running in the general election. I am sorry that some chose not to support this effort, but I am not surprised. It is clear that Mr Tsipras is trying to attract some hardcore anti-systemic voters. On this matter in particular, though, we should have presented a united “Democratic wall,” also to convince citizens that support for criminal organizations or neo-Nazis and fascists is not the solution if they want to express their opposition to the political system. SYRIZA, unfortunately, chose to be the exception. A radical response to the phenomenon – which is not limited to Greece – demands a climate of political dialogue and not division or extreme rhetoric, a strengthening of democracy and inclusivity, so that no citizen feels left out.

You have said that there will be more women in your next government. Is the 50-50 ratio attainable?

There will be more women and such a step has already been made on the nationwide party ticket, where three of the six candidates are women. I also remind you that it was our proposal that gave the country its first female president. I don’t think we can achieve such a ratio in the cabinet, but the presence of women will certainly be strengthened. We also have more women on our ballots than foreseen, though how many make it into Parliament is up to the voters.

Apart from a new ministry for housing that you have already spoken of, are you planning any other structural changes to the cabinet?

During our four-year term in office, we had to deal with a string of successive crises, caused by extraneous factors. We also had to deal with chronic problems and their consequences, on top of a plethora of other problems. We were prepared for that in 2019, but now we also have much more experience in what needs to be done better and what needs to be avoided. We also know where changes need to be made and are prepared to make them. If the citizens entrust us with the governance of this country again, the ministries will be reorganized.

‘Open’ to talks with whoever the Turks elect

Do you see a resumption of the dialogue between Greece and Turkey after the elections? Could we take recourse to The Hague for the other issues, apart from the delineation of the maritime zones?

The Turks will vote as they do. However, I cannot say that I am very optimistic given Turkey’s revisionist stance. That is why who is at Greece’s helm over the next few years is so important. Who can strengthen the country’s position, develop its international alliances and increase its deterrence capabilities? Can Mitsotakis accomplish this as the prime minister of a single-party government, or a hodgepodge of a government with Mr Tsipras as prime minister? I will talk to whoever the Turkish people choose. In the meantime, we need to be prepared for better, but also for harder days.

‘For there to be a meaningful improvement in relations, Turkey needs to accept that we resolve our differences on the basis of international law and the law of the sea’

I am hoping that Turkey will realize that it has more to gain from a rapprochement with Greece, Europe and the West more generally. Our door is open to building a positive agenda, to matters of mutual benefit, like commerce, culture and the environment. We are consistent, but we are not naive.

For there to be a meaningful improvement in relations, Turkey needs to accept that we resolve our differences on the basis of international law and the law of the sea. And that there is basically one big difference, which is the delineation of the maritime zones, the exclusive economic zone and the continental shelf in the Aegean and the Eastern Mediterranean. These are also the issues that we could take to The Hague at some point. Under no circumstances will I discuss any other issue with Turkey. Nor, of course, matters that have to do with Greek sovereignty on the Aegean islands or with the demilitarization of the islands. 

‘Tax breaks and raises in salaries and pensions are permanent, not one-off’

Public opinion polls continue to show that ND has not managed to get its message across to young voters. Can this lack of trust be made up with a one-off handout of 150 euros?

The lack of trust is not just about New Democracy; all the main parties have poor resonance with the younger generation. And that is something we need to try to change. It would be an insult to suggest that this deficit can be covered with benefits. What we did, with policies at many different levels, is to try to create a better country where young people will see a brighter future. We have to acknowledge that young people bore the burdens of previous generations in the decade-long economic crisis. They had to pay for problems that were not their fault. Many left the country. Others live on a very low salary, paying very expensive rent or still live with their parents because they can’t make ends meet. We took initiatives to deal with these problems. We improved education, raised the minimum salary to 780 euros from 650 euros where SYRIZA had left it, and introduced the “My House” program which allows young couples to acquire their own home. The interest shown in the program prompted us to double the resources available. 

We implemented digital and green upskilling programs for the unemployed, actions for youth employment and for young entrepreneurship. During our term, 300,000 new jobs were created. Youth unemployment remains high, but it dropped 5.5 percentage points from 2019 and we have started seeing the first signs of a reversal of the brain drain. We are trying to build a greener and more digital Greece.

‘The recent data show a reduction in social inequalities and more fiscal stability, and we are just one step away from investment grade. What do the various “Illuminati” who see a fiscal derailment every so often have to say about that?’

When you were in the opposition, you accused Tsipras of excessive handouts. Haven’t you also handed out a lot of one-off benefits?

The tax breaks and raises in salaries and pensions are permanent, not one-off. And they stem from the economy’s growth. The various one-off benefits concern the “shopping card” and the “fuel pass” or emergency assistance for low-income pensioners or for subsidizing power bills – they were a response to a specific situation. This is one method of support in a tough situation, especially for those who need it most. Crises, whose impact is offset by such measures, are passing, while the abolition of 50 taxes and annual raises to pensions and salaries are lasting. We will persist with policies that permanently increase the incomes of citizens – the workers and the middle class – and the state will continue to be on the side of the citizens, especially the vulnerable ones, in a crisis. We kept society on its feet without jeopardizing the fiscal balance. The recent data show a reduction in social inequalities and more fiscal stability, and we are just one step away from investment grade. What do the various “Illuminati” who see a fiscal derailment every so often have to say about that?

New Democracy’s nationwide ticket has been criticized for having too many government officials and also for having candidates without a firm ideological identity. How do you respond?

I wanted to do something different to what has been done so far. I wanted to reward men and women who have distinguished themselves with their professional achievements and not necessarily people who are widely recognizable, while also sending a message to society. That is why I chose people who stand out in fields that are priorities for us, such as the economy, civil protection, health, education and social policy. They have already earned a reputation in these fields and now we’re giving them an opportunity to try their hand in politics and to bring something new if they are elected.

You have admitted that the government did not make equally rapid and bold progress in every area. What are the three main things we should expect in the first year of your new term, if you are elected to government? 

Before we talk about individual policies, I would say that achieving investment grade is the top national goal. Rating agencies and the markets are waiting for the outcome of the elections, if we will press on with reforms or return to practices of the past. This is what emerges from the reports of international agencies these past few days. If the Greek people put their trust in us again, investment grade will be a matter of months. Can Mr Tsipras say the same thing? If we assume that a government emerges from the elections that tries to implement a program similar to what Mr Tsipras has described, not only would we need binoculars to even catch a glimpse of investment grade, it would lead to a big increase in taxes, to an excessive deficit and, ultimately, to new memorandums and bankruptcy. 

As far as the three main things you asked about, I can sum it up in a few words: strengthening the National Health System, introducing more changes that will speed up the dispensation of justice and completing the telematics system on the national railway, together with the general upgrade of the entire network.